Folks making the case that the problem is the Israeli government and the IDF, not the Israeli people: yes, I would normally agree that you cannot equate a people with their government. So now tell those Israelis who are the first to tell anyone who will listen that all Israelis are IDF and that you can’t separate the two that maybe they should stop doing that.
I actually had an Israeli woman from the fediverse ask to video chat so she could explain “their side” towards the start of the latest chapter of Israel’s genocide (later, as she told me “because you have a large audience on Mastodon”). She showed up with her friend from the IDF and they made the case, in no uncertain terms, that “all Israelis are IDF” after I told them my issue was with the IDF and the Israeli government not the Israeli people. “You cannot separate the two.” (Them, not me.) So that’s maybe a place Israelis can start if they want to differentiate themselves from their genocidal government and occupation force. (If that’s something
... pokaż więcejFolks making the case that the problem is the Israeli government and the IDF, not the Israeli people: yes, I would normally agree that you cannot equate a people with their government. So now tell those Israelis who are the first to tell anyone who will listen that all Israelis are IDF and that you can’t separate the two that maybe they should stop doing that.
I actually had an Israeli woman from the fediverse ask to video chat so she could explain “their side” towards the start of the latest chapter of Israel’s genocide (later, as she told me “because you have a large audience on Mastodon”). She showed up with her friend from the IDF and they made the case, in no uncertain terms, that “all Israelis are IDF” after I told them my issue was with the IDF and the Israeli government not the Israeli people. “You cannot separate the two.” (Them, not me.) So that’s maybe a place Israelis can start if they want to differentiate themselves from their genocidal government and occupation force. (If that’s something they wish to do.)
Another would be to get those poll numbers down so that 82% of the population don’t support the forced expulsion of Gaza’s population to other countries*.
Let’s start with these two things and I promise it will make it so much easier for people to separate the Israeli people from the IDF and from Israel’s genocide of the Palestinian people if, in fact, it turns out that that’s the case.
* theconversation.com/in-israel-…
The Bible contains some explicit genocidal narratives, and over time, some religious Zionists have wielded these stories to advocate for the destruction of the Palestinians.
The Conversation
Ω 🌍 Gus Posey
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Sweet Home Alaberta 🇨🇦 🇺🇦 🏳️🌈 🏳️⚧️ 🇲🇽
in reply to Ω 🌍 Gus Posey • • •I agree with the israelis. They should all be moved into Gaza and the Palestinian survivors move into isrseli houses. The israelis are exceedingly rich and can use wealth and rubble to rebuild.
Aral Balkan
in reply to Sweet Home Alaberta 🇨🇦 🇺🇦 🏳️🌈 🏳️⚧️ 🇲🇽 • • •Sozan
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •I also would have agreed until ... well, some time ago. But meanwhile it is obviously only a small minority who would give a damn for the life of a Palestinian.
This morning I found this video with Gideon Levys assessment of the situation - I think he knows well enough:
mastodon.world/@GRA3432/114912…
Sozan (@GRA3432@mastodon.world)
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8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*]
in reply to Sozan • •Sozan likes this.
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Mason Loring Bliss
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •By that logic, the people of the US like concentration camps. You interviewed their equivalent of a MAGAt and she wanted you to believe that they're all MAGAts.
Meanwhile, over the last week I've seen videos of Israeli kids burning their draft papers (and being jailed for it) and I've read a letter from a couple thousand Israeli academics condemning what they recognize as a genocide. Oh, and don't forget Neturei Karta members being beaten in the streets as they protest the genocide. Last year I was following an Israeli fellow whose group was defending trucks carrying food from Zionist settlers at the Gaza border.
There are people there who care about what's happening just as much as we do and who are working against the genocide more directly than we can. I'm not much concerned about percentages there for the same reason I'd argue that we're not all MAGAts here.
Aral Balkan
in reply to Mason Loring Bliss • • •Mogleg
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Any “opposition to genocide” that doesn’t include the dissolution of the settler colony and its occupation, reparations, a secular state with equal rights for all, is merely a wish to return to the old status quo of low key oppression and creeping fascism that serves the white colonial masters.
@mason
Different Drummer
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •There are no good Israelis.
By definition an Israeli is a colonist on someone else's land. Even without the unending torrent of evidence of constant military subjugation/destruction of those pre-existing people the very act of being Israeli is colonial.
There are no good Israelis.
Tofu Golem
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •The minority of Israeli citizens who are against this are being brutalized by the police and other Israeli citizens.
Do not engage them in debate. There is no debating the morality of genocide, and anyone who wants to have this debate is a monster and not worth treating like a rational human being.
Proletarian Rage
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Proletarian Rage (@prolrage@todon.nl)
Todon.nlskedarwarrior
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Its also worth saying, just because things happen in the past doesn't mean we should repeat them anyhow. Whether or not its right then, doesn't mean its right now. So I will just say that. Also humans cannot decide to commit genocide of their own accord. Which has been the way since long ago.
The only time I can think of genocide would be justified is if most of the people were friggin like trump or netanyahu. This is however so unlikely... especially now.
Zack
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •@aral. Damn. It's a realization that has become increasingly hard to ignore, and it echoes a painful thought process..
The usual and healthy distinction we make between a people and their government becomes very difficult to maintain here: if 82% of Jewish Israelis support a policy as radical and contrary to international law as the forced expulsion of the population of Gaza, then we can no longer reasonably speak of a simple "Netanyahu government policy."
Toni Aittoniemi
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Goes around, comes around.
Even when "god" supposedly promised "israelites" (who were cananites) their promised land, it already was inhabited. With cananites (who were the same people).
There isn't much evidence to support the massacres pictured in the jewish part of the bible ever happened.
But I wouldn't put it past myself to say that the legacy of these violent verses is having an effect right now, as the annihilation is happening for real..
NotBlackMagic
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Bill Zaumen
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •A quick Internet search turned up an article (from what it seems is not an Isreali news outlet) claiming that 67% of Israelis want the war in Gaza to end. The article seems to have been written this month. A couple of months ago, I heard a right-wing (pro Trump) Israeli supporter claim that the vast majority of Israelis support Netanyahu. When I got home, I found an article in Haarezt indicating that a solid majority wanted Netanyahu to resign.
aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/67-of…
67% of Israelis support ending Gaza war, poll shows
www.aa.com.tr