A huge portion of online Greek mythology fandom is currently celebrating Odysseus as their favorite boi.
I keep wanting to bust in like the Kool-Aid man and tell everyone about Palamedes, and what Odysseus did to him...
(But since the Hades and Pesephone dogpile experience, I know better than to argue with the mythology fandom)
reshared this
Andre Solo
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •Si Fuller
in reply to Andre Solo • • •Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág
in reply to Si Fuller • • •@si_fuller @AndreSolo
*whispers*
Palamedes was an inventor and best friend of Achilles. He invented using writing and maths to keep the whole Greek army organized. He also invented dice and board games to keep the soldiers entertained while stranded. He kept the army healthy and fed through multiple crises under Troy, and invented a system of signal fires for navigation. He was also the only one who could direct Achilles on the battlefield. He did none for glory and wanted none of the spoils.
Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •@si_fuller @AndreSolo
Unfortunately, he was also the one who called Odysseus' bluff when he pretended to be insane so he could avoid going to war. So Odysseus hated him from the get go. And every time Palamedes could do something Odysseus couldn't, Odysseus grew more spiteful.
Long story short, Odysseus came up with a plan to frame Palamedes for treason. And because Palamedes was so popular with the men and Agamemnon was jealous of him, the plan worked. Palamedes was executed for treason.
Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •@si_fuller @AndreSolo
Legend says that centuries later, when Homer wanted to create his epics, there were no people who could tell him what happened under Troy. So he summoned Odysseus' shade to hear the story first hand.
The shade of Odysseus told Homer that he was only willing to tell the tale if Homer swore that he'd leave Palamedes completely out of it. So he did.
(Other sources however do mention him. When I put his story together, it was like a 1000 piece puzzle, but it was worth it.)
Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •@si_fuller @AndreSolo
Side note: this is why Achilles is so incredibly powerful in the Iliad. Because he was originally two people. Brains, and divine brawn. People called Palamedes the Lion-Tamer because he was the only one who could keep up with Achilles and direct his fury in the field. Homer just dropped Palamedes' side from the story.
Also, in this version of the legend, it was not Briseis who sparked Achilles' wrath. It was coming home from a mission and finding his best friend dead.
Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •@si_fuller @AndreSolo
(Oh yeah, Odysseus made sure Achilles was away before he framed Palamedes.)
Also, Palamedes' father was the son of Poseidon, Nauplios. He demanded justice for his son but Agamemnon refused. So later on, when the Greek navy was sailing home, Nauplios used the signal fires (that Palamedes invented) to lead a bunch of them onto the rocks in a storm. That was his revenge.
Andre Solo
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •𐌘𐌄𐌓𐌔𐌖
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •Or the tragic Odysseus (who betrays Philotectes and Palamedes, who slays Astyanax and insults Hekuba) could be a later evolution of the Homeric or epic Odysseus.
In (Pseudo-)Dares's version, Achilles is a rival of Palamedes too and he is furious when Palamedes gets elected as the new leader of the Greeks after Agamemnon. Paris shoots Palamedes.
In Dictys's version, on the other hand, Odysseus is even worse: he murders Ajax himself.
Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág
in reply to 𐌘𐌄𐌓𐌔𐌖 • • •Andre Solo
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •Gee those ancient Greeks -and their fans- when they grow spiteful you better get out of their way huh?
Si Fuller
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág
in reply to Si Fuller • • •Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág
in reply to Si Fuller • • •@si_fuller @AndreSolo
Also, even apart from Palamedes, Odysses does a bunch of shady stuff. He is the one that suggests Astyanax should be killed. He is also the one who gets Philoktetes abandoned on an island when he is injured. And he tricks Protesilaos into dying to fulfil a prophecy.
Andre Solo
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •Matija Šuklje
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •@TarkabarkaHolgy, oh, wow, that was a great read.
We had to write an essay in high school about Odysseus and why he's a great hero, and I remember my stupid(er), young(er) 18 y/o self failing, because I argued something in the lines of "IDK, he sounds like a bit of a dick and a bit of a whore, TBH". Nowhere near as well researched or well written, of course!
I did later realise why he's a hero and complex character.
But it does give me pleasure that my original gut feeling was not wrong 😂
Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág
in reply to Si Fuller • • •@si_fuller @AndreSolo
My Persephone controversy in a nutshell:
I don't think Hades & Persephone is a romance. It is a rich, ancient and important myth about grief, loss, and the changing of the seasons. But it is not a romance, and it was never meant to be.
*ducks behind some shields*
Si Fuller
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág
in reply to Si Fuller • • •8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*]
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • •Odysseus was essentially a dick. Manipulating everyone around. If manipulation did nor work, he was killing everyone brutally. Whoever joined him, died. Women he cheated and left behind. Could be Elon's role model.
A while ago I even wrote an emotional piece denouncing Odysseus. I will paste it here if I find it.
Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág likes this.
Skjeggtroll
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •"A huge portion of online Greek mythology fandom "
There is a "faun-service" joke in there, somewhere. I know it!
ETA: Although, no. That would be the _Roman_ mythological fandom. Nevermind.
Skjeggtroll
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*]
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • •Here's my take on Odysseus, written on December 2018, liberated form Facegoo.
... pokaż więcejHere's my take on Odysseus, written on December 2018, liberated form Facegoo.
As someone wrote about "90 shades of Grey": had the protagonist been a worker, it would be a story of domestic violence and abuse.
Matija Šuklje likes this.
Ricardo
in reply to Dr. Zalka Csenge Virág • • •