Saw a thing on TikTok and I have to agree:
The more you learn about history, and the more you study the period, the more any rational and decent person should ***loathe*** the Victorian era, anything from it, and anything that calls back to it.
Truly the nadir of human civilization.
They ruined historical artifacts of every possible variety, wiped out scores of civilizations, did monstrous things to their own fucking children--there is literally not a single thing from the Victorian era that is an unmitigated good.
No, not that thing.
Yes, including literature.
And before you ask:
Yes, I studied this dumpster fire of an era at the doctoral level. Specifically, my specialization in lit was the Enlightenment (which was also awful, but has A FEW decent things, such as the Irish independence movement), and the frickin MOMENT that The Castle of Otronto appears is the end of anything remotely redeemable about England especially and the entirety of Europe for the most part for a good century or so.
The volume of what was annihilated by the Victorians as immoral, and which are now lost forever, with only references in biography and journals and history, is truly beyond measuring.
So, like... Keep that in mind when you watch a costume drama next time, okay? Because all those pretty gowns and tasteful parties only existed because they gave little boys scrotal cancer at 7 from chimneysweeping so the houses wouldn't burn down and little girls dying from mercury poisoning for making the hats they wore.
And before someone calls toward the birth of modern feminist literature in the era:
Go read the Xtian Mystics. Seriously. Julian of Norwich, Hildegard of Bingen (who was sainted!), and dozens of others who came centuries earlier--that feminist lit only had to premiere because IT HAD BEEN WIPED OUT! BY THE VICTORIANS!!
Even the worst of the women Mystics were vastly more feminist than the costume fiction authors in the Victorian era, and they wrote CENTURIES before it.
reshared this
Shannon Prickett, JimmyChezPants 🇨🇦 i 8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*] reshared this.
⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Also also, personal gripe:
Boarding schools, which only became common in the Vic era, are one of the most horrific commonplace forms of child abuse and, I believe, is responsible for much of the worst of toxic masculinity and patriarchy we deal with today.
So like
That's why I hate boarding school dramas and novels and refuse to read themmmmm.
And if I try it and your novel has even mild boarding school abuse I will almost for sure DNF it regardless of what else is going on.
Eveb college-age stuff I'm touchy on, if there's frequent abusive acts.
The only one I can think of that did it well is The Magicians, where the very plot of the book and setting is that magic comes *from* trauma and abuse, and which made the entire series into a critique of boarding schools and holding trauma close instead of working to heal it.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15533198/
Shannon Prickett reshared this.
Bujold
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Jocelynephiliac
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to Jocelynephiliac • • •@twipped I've seen it. And good god does it whitewash the abuse of those settings.
Put another way: Williams is only notable as a teacher in that setting *because of how monstrously abusive it was as a default*.
Jocelynephiliac
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Feral Tyla (The best Tyla)
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Jocelynephiliac
in reply to Feral Tyla (The best Tyla) • • •Feral Tyla (The best Tyla)
in reply to Jocelynephiliac • • •@twipped The movie Hidden Figures had these scenes with one of the characters running all the way across the campus to use the colored bathroom and a scene with a cop treating them like shit. Those scenes were not placed to illustrate how bad it was, and gave really no understanding of how bad it was. They were placed so that there could be the scene with the manager saying “anyone can use the bathroom,” and so we could see how the women were so strong and ultimately happy. It was a movie intended to make us (esp white Americans) feel good while avoiding the nuanced truth of the real hell involved. We were supposed to focus on the happiness, so the struggle was there mostly as a plot device.
That’s how Dead Poets hit me. It felt like the setting was built as a plot device to make Williams’ character the shining light and happiness that we could focus on. It hit me as a feel good representation of badness.
I understand that was the intention of both
... pokaż więcej@twipped The movie Hidden Figures had these scenes with one of the characters running all the way across the campus to use the colored bathroom and a scene with a cop treating them like shit. Those scenes were not placed to illustrate how bad it was, and gave really no understanding of how bad it was. They were placed so that there could be the scene with the manager saying “anyone can use the bathroom,” and so we could see how the women were so strong and ultimately happy. It was a movie intended to make us (esp white Americans) feel good while avoiding the nuanced truth of the real hell involved. We were supposed to focus on the happiness, so the struggle was there mostly as a plot device.
That’s how Dead Poets hit me. It felt like the setting was built as a plot device to make Williams’ character the shining light and happiness that we could focus on. It hit me as a feel good representation of badness.
I understand that was the intention of both stories and all similar stories. Their intention is to show the happiness, so that’s what they did, I get that. It just makes the illustration of the structural issues of abuse and oppression feel flat.
⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to Feral Tyla (The best Tyla) • • •★ Amy Star ★
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •have you read Caliban And The Witch? it's not directly about the Victorian era but it does chart a path from the middle ages through to the modern era, and how society regressed in many respects due to the imposed morality of the upper class through capitalism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliban_…
2004 book by Silvia Federici
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to ★ Amy Star ★ • • •UkeleleEric
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Rachel Rawlings
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •@stevewfolds
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Andrea
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to Andrea • • •Andrea
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Tattierantula 🎃
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •my dad was raised in the British boarding school system from the age of nine, and modelled his entire philosophy of behaviour and child-raising technique on what he learnt therein.
...
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*]
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • — (Internet) •Let me me also bring up "Stalky & Co." (Kipling) that is quite a graphic picture of the main goal of boarding school process: formation of the Imperial Men, forging their bonds and making them an efficient whip in the hands of the rulers.
As @@stevewfolds wrote, the main cruelty - the driving force of the whole process - came from other victims, set to perpetuate whatever was done to them.
The officials were there to curb (steer) the violence, solve minor glitches, and - theoretically - to remove those permanently unfit (this way or another).
Today we call it socialisation and peer pressure. We see it daily, performed under watchful eye of professionals - directly and indirectly.
I read it in high school and paid more attention to protagonists camaraderie, their antics and transgressions. Now, I see that it is probably the most frank analysis of the process, perhaps because Kipling (almost unfit himself) internalised it in full and did not try to hide anything.
like this
@stevewfolds i ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ like this.
@stevewfolds reshared this.
@stevewfolds
in reply to 8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*] • • •@8petros Kipling has a Vermont hook. I was read Kipling’s “Just So Stories” in dramatic voicing at bedtime as a child.
vtdigger.org/2017/12/31/kiplin…
Then Again: Kipling’s brief and stormy stay in Vermont
Mark Bushnell (VTDigger)Lyle Solla-Yates
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Hildegard von Bingen music, videos, stats, and photos | Last.fm
Last.fm⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to Lyle Solla-Yates • • •Lyle Solla-Yates
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •SewBlue
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •@Lyle they only built the sewers because the entire city of London stank one summer.
Not because hygiene, or because Dr Snow's research into typhoid and water.
Because they still believed that smells carried disease and if the entire city stank, even the rich would get sick.
They did not spend that kind of money out of charity, trust in science, or clean water, but because most people still believed in miasma.
The rich were tired of the city stinking. So they paid to fix it.
Matt Campbell
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •@matt maaaaaybe read more about Darwin's racism and incest (his wife was his first cousin).
So yeah.
Square Four Fours
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •@matt
Yeah early evolutionary theory was used to justify all sorts of the worst kinds of Victorian racism and imperialism. Also, eugenics, which really only fell out of favor after WWII.
Even without Darwin, other naturalists at the time would have come to similar conclusions (see Alfred Russell Wallace et al) given the cultural background.
Adriano
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Mims, Most Basic of Bitches
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Woozle Hypertwin
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to Woozle Hypertwin • • •athena_rising
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to athena_rising • • •Sordid Amok!
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •draNgNon
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Bruce Lawson ✅ ♫ ♿ ✌️♂️✊
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Jamie Blumberg
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •UkeleleEric
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •UkeleleEric
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Fish Id Wardrobe
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
Unknown parent • • •⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
Unknown parent • • •@BoysenberryCider The execution-by-prison of Wilde for being gay is what you're hanging your hat on?
Cuz like... No. I really don't have to give them credit, especially not in the face of that shit.
Dan Neuman 🇨🇦
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Christo. London, England
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Hilary
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •All largely true.
Also, one of my bugbears is equating the 19th century with "Victorian". She was born in 1819 and came to the throne in 1837. Over a third of the way into the century.
So much bad stuff that happened in the early 19th century is routinely mislabelled as Victorian.
The Castle of Otranto was published in 1764. What the fuck does that have to do with Victoria?
Calling this shit Victorian is just blaming the woman. For stuff that happened before she was born.
⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to Hilary • • •@regordane Otronto, and the birth of the neo-Gothic art movement, represented the foundations upon which much of the horrors of the era rested and relied upon. The focus on wealth and power and status, the acknowledging and simply accepting the realities of daily monstrousness, while protesting purity and claiming them as essential. Otronto, and the neo-Gothic perspective it gave birth to, normalized it all by claiming the weight of history and the distortions of power itself were an equal, if not greater, burden. Otronto was not the beginning of the Victorian era--it was the overture, in the way that the 80s culture of greed celebration ushered in our modern day of oligarchy (as the Victorian era truly began with the voices of Keats and Tennyson and Shelley).
And yes, Victoria came to the throne later, but the era as a whole bears her name because she was emblematic of its values and perspectives, not because she caused this-or-that. Victoria herself frankly did relatively
... pokaż więcej@regordane Otronto, and the birth of the neo-Gothic art movement, represented the foundations upon which much of the horrors of the era rested and relied upon. The focus on wealth and power and status, the acknowledging and simply accepting the realities of daily monstrousness, while protesting purity and claiming them as essential. Otronto, and the neo-Gothic perspective it gave birth to, normalized it all by claiming the weight of history and the distortions of power itself were an equal, if not greater, burden. Otronto was not the beginning of the Victorian era--it was the overture, in the way that the 80s culture of greed celebration ushered in our modern day of oligarchy (as the Victorian era truly began with the voices of Keats and Tennyson and Shelley).
And yes, Victoria came to the throne later, but the era as a whole bears her name because she was emblematic of its values and perspectives, not because she caused this-or-that. Victoria herself frankly did relatively little of note differently from her predecessor or successor; but she did these things loudly, forcefully, and in a way absolutely unapologetically typical of the era.
Hilary
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Mark vW
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •Talia Hussain
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •I would love to read a book or anthology of chapters exploring this topic. There is an incredible book proposal in this post
(I’ve ordered Caliban and the witch as recommended in one of the comments)
smitten
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •I'm very interested to read Julian of Norwich now, do you recommend reading her in Middle English or a particular modern translation? This line on wikipedia made me lean towards original, but Grace Warrick's translation seems respected too.
⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to smitten • • •MMS
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
in reply to MMS • • •Oof
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •@MelMScow
During a power outage a few years back a trial reading of the first chapter of a set of William M. Reynolds 'Mysteries of the Courts of London' cliff hangered me for five action packed but gimicky volumes. The novels are enlivened by impassioned critiques of British hypocrisies social, moral, and political. Prince George IV is the main bad guy. Today Reynolds is dismissed as a Dickens infringer, but I suspect it's because his values are not as conservative.
Lady Helen "Bio" Rodriguez
in reply to ⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡ • • •⚡MAD DOCTOR IMPOSSIBLE⚡
Unknown parent • • •Sensitive content