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Some friends decided to buy shovels and go to the southern #Poland to help with the #flood cleanup.
I'm asking them to first call the local crisis centers and NGOs and ask what do they need. Bringing some electronic components for failing water pumps, power banks, setting up provisional infrastructure might help much more than being just another person with a shovel.
I consider it #solarpunk to bring smart, organized help, instead of just #voluntourism .
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alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •This is exactly what the Sierra Leonean hackers did in 2014 (full story at https://lenses.alxd.org/ ): instead of just volunteering in hospitals among starving staff, they created infrastructure for everyone to be paid and continue working, saving tens, if not hundreds of thousands of lives.
As much as an app is not going to solve a flood, using your specialist knowledge, working with the people on the ground will usually help more.
More people can grab a shovel than set up a supply chain.
Solarpunk: lenses and foundations
alxd - solarpunk hackersabik
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •AKingsbury
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •Seriously? You're criticizing people for helping the wrong way?
Are you going there with power banks, replacement parts, etc? Or a shovel?
alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts
in reply to AKingsbury • • •@AlexanderKingsbury not criticizing, trying to connect them with actual people on the ground who know what kind of help is needed. Same as I do with Global Innovation Gathering with people who want to help the Global South.
My point is that we need to stop seeing help as an aesthetic and start asking what kind of help is needed most.
AKingsbury
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •@AlexanderKingsbury a lot of what we in the North (of the word, not Poland ;) ) consider help can be actively harmful, as it's badly misaligned with the needs.
We keep sending medical devices with no spare parts, only to be discarded as soon as the first maintenance is due. A lot of our relief processes are set up as industries instead of actual help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGRtyxEpoGg is a good documentary on the tech aspects of the process.
Why Western Designs Fail in Developing Countries
YouTubeAKingsbury
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •sabik
in reply to AKingsbury • • •Are you seriously suggesting there's a shortage of shovels or labour in the area
AKingsbury
in reply to sabik • • •I'm openly saying that I've never heard of a significant flood that had too much labor in the first couple weeks. Now maybe you feel like answering the question I asked you.
alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts
in reply to AKingsbury • • •@AlexanderKingsbury @sabik as for me, yeah, I'm comparing them, as they're both:
going blindly with the aesthetics of "I want to help" and absolutely no knowledge with what is needed, no local context or points of contacts.
AKingsbury
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •@sabik
"absolutely no knowledge with what is needed"? Really?
sabik
in reply to AKingsbury • • •@AlexanderKingsbury
Yeah, unless you're skilled (and ideally trained), you're going to be the opposite of help
In any humanitarian disaster area, there are already going to be too many people who can inexpertly swing a shovel and need to be housed and fed
If you're moved to help, sign up for training so you're ready to help with the next disaster
alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts
in reply to sabik • • •AKingsbury
in reply to sabik • • •Have you ever helped clean up from a flood? Or talked to anyone that has?
alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts
in reply to AKingsbury • • •@AlexanderKingsbury @sabik
I have not helped clean up from a flood. I have put in a lot of physical labor into other relief efforts and I stand by my point:
A well-informed, well-coordinated effort does more than just another pair of hands does.
If I can get the people shoveling clean water, food, or to organize what and where to shovel, it counts at least as much, if not more. Networkers matter.
I don't want to keep "helping" as just aestheticized notion. Let's help smart.
AKingsbury
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •@sabik
A well-trained team can do more than a poorly trained one. But A. people can be trained and coordinated an site and B. even an untrained, willing person with a shovel will do far more good than someone who doesn't show up at all and who contributes nothing. I'm not doing those Poles any good, for example.
Mat
in reply to AKingsbury • • •@AlexanderKingsbury I will criticise people who don't bother to ask "what do you need?" because their uninformed "help" can be disruptive to already organised support.
Like, can we just communicate before doing stuff?
AKingsbury
in reply to Mat • • •Do you know that these people did not ask? Or perhaps that there was no call from emergency managers or the like saying "Please, we need willing hands"?
alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts
in reply to AKingsbury • • •AKingsbury
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •@matti_len
Can you also confirm that there was no call from any competent authority or organization for such help?
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛
in reply to AKingsbury • • •@AKingsbury What kind of cross-examination is this? They're friends, and @alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts is providing good advice on not rushing headlong into a critical situation with more good intentions than good sense.
@Mat
AKingsbury
in reply to clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 • • •@clacke @matti_len
It's hardly a cross-examination; I'm asking relevant questions in an attempt to understand the situation.
Mat
in reply to AKingsbury • • •AKingsbury
in reply to Mat • • •@matti_len @clacke @alxd
Is it "unreasonable" to go and help after a disaster?
alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts
in reply to AKingsbury • • •I find it interesting that you read my post as "better do nothing than just go with a shovel". I'm very intentionally saying "remember to call people and ask what they need", which has been confirmed by many others in this thread who are experienced in flood relief, like @sendai in https://eigenmagic.net/@sendai/113164606665322645
sen
I find it interesting that you read my post as "better do nothing than just go with a shovel". I'm very intentionally saying "remember to call people and ask what they need", which has been confirmed by many others in this thread who are experienced in flood relief, like @sendai in https://eigenmagic.net/@sendai/113164606665322645
sen
2024-09-19 14:07:42
AKingsbury
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •@matti_len @clacke @sendai
I find it interesting that you repeatedly refuse to answer questions on the matter.
Mat
in reply to AKingsbury • • •AKingsbury
in reply to Mat • • •@matti_len @clacke @sendai
Hey, you can claim my arguments have been "undermined" for any reason at all, any time, all you want. You're also free to ask all the questions you want.
8Petros [Signal: Petros.63]
in reply to AKingsbury • — (Internet) •AKingsbury
Unknown parent • • •@sabik
So they'll be there long enough to do useful, complex, technical work, but they cannot get useful manual labor done in that same time?
alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts
in reply to AKingsbury • • •8Petros [Signal: Petros.63]
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • — (Internet) •From https://www.gov.pl/web/powodz2024/wazne-informacje-kontaktowe2
And https://niw.gov.pl/wlacz-sie-w-pomoc-poszkodowanym-przez-powodz-jak-to-zrobic-madrze/
Ważne numery kontaktowe - Pomoc dla powodzian - Portal Gov.pl
Pomoc dla powodzianClockwork ☃️✒️
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •Anthk
in reply to alxd ✏️ solarpunk prompts • • •sen
Unknown parent • • •@mcnado @PhoenixSerenity Having assisted with five flood clean ups so far, this.
Bring as much shelf stable single hand eatable food as they can. All the stores near them will be stripped by those that can still travel, bring food from wherever they may be coming from as stores further and further out will gradually be emptied. One of the floods was when I was going through CFS, I couldn’t help with the cleanup, so I spent days making sandwiches from supplies donated from hundreds of kms away.
Do the same with PPE, people end up working far too hard for far too long and many will ignore their gloves, boots, masks, etc. becoming unusable because they can’t bear to stop. Hand sanitisers and tissues are an absolute necessity.
Comms will likely be spotty, having some sort of resilient comms that may allow them to help people contact whoever they need to
... pokaż więcej@mcnado @PhoenixSerenity Having assisted with five flood clean ups so far, this.
Bring as much shelf stable single hand eatable food as they can. All the stores near them will be stripped by those that can still travel, bring food from wherever they may be coming from as stores further and further out will gradually be emptied. One of the floods was when I was going through CFS, I couldn’t help with the cleanup, so I spent days making sandwiches from supplies donated from hundreds of kms away.
Do the same with PPE, people end up working far too hard for far too long and many will ignore their gloves, boots, masks, etc. becoming unusable because they can’t bear to stop. Hand sanitisers and tissues are an absolute necessity.
Comms will likely be spotty, having some sort of resilient comms that may allow them to help people contact whoever they need to will be a big psychological help. Bring batteries, panels, etc. for people to charge their devices, a hybrid vehicle is a terrific mobile power station.
Be sure to tell them to contact local recovery groups, they‘ll likely already have a rough idea as to what’s needed where. Whatever they do bring, bring spares they’re prepared to give away.
Alternatively, contact those groups and work out if you can help remotely. Far too many people don’t want to do the hard work of coordinating resources, it’s just as necessary as actively moving dirt around.
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