I suspect the fediverse is more than just a substitute for other social media. I see this as the beginning of a phase change in how we use the web. We are shifting from corporate control to community control. Fundamentally, the fediverse is a cooperative endeavor, instead of a competitive one. I look forward to the shift in mindset that this change brings about. Will there be a similar movement towards cooperative organizations in other areas of our lives? Once people have had a taste of this approach, will they not be eager to see it spread?
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Aaron
in reply to Aaron • • •Aaron
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in reply to Aaron • • •Ryk ✌🏻🖖🏽🇨🇦
in reply to Aaron • • •Can this taken back to today’s equiv. of the past’s ‘pioneers’?
As you’d said earlier, as I recall in pieces: rather than paying Joe Blow Inc. top extra coin, for the newes version of the flashing lights Bell & Whistle 3000 Deluxe, for labour and cost, those of us who know the portions could build for immeasurably cheaper.
It is harder work that way but …. compare the old days to day:
- old: made from ‘stone’
- today: made from soggy cardboard
😕
Aaron
in reply to Ryk ✌🏻🖖🏽🇨🇦 • • •Ryk ✌🏻🖖🏽🇨🇦
in reply to Aaron • • •Agreed, all around.
It is funny to look back at all of the lived through / experienced periods; realizing the internal, progression from. It helps to realize further of it, with greater ease. Externally as possibilities as well.
That all can easily be used alone to determine the overall value, as opposed to excessive profiting.
Security for others? From externally influenced fears of falling / failing, with extra amounts of ‘this that and more’ … just, in case?
Lord Kelvin
in reply to Ryk ✌🏻🖖🏽🇨🇦 • • •The US learned how effective propaganda was in Germany. So we did our own propaganda to help beat them. Then in the post-WWII years, the propagandists turned to other targets. Cold war & such. Once the USSR dissolved, they instead turned their sights on us.
Aaron
in reply to Lord Kelvin • • •sbarrax aka Marco Frattola
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in reply to Victoria • • •Steve E
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Aaron
in reply to Steve E • • •@steveediger On a long enough timescale, it seems inevitable! Cooperatives are more robust that other businesses, and they tend to spawn more of themselves and conglomerate into larger organizations.
Sadly, things move slowly, in no small part because cooperatives often have little use for advertising. (A *huge* plus, IMO. Ads torture me especially, thanks to my sensory sensitivities.)
I also worry about interference from government, particularly with corporations using their extracted profits to legally bribe our politicians to make laws that favor them more and more so they can keep increasing those profits.
Pusher Of Pixels (old account)
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in reply to Aaron • • •@richardrawson
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Aaron
in reply to Steve E • • •@steveediger Exciting stuff! :D
I think the fediverse is giving a ton of people direct exposure to the basic model. I mean, most co-ops don't function on donations, as a rule, but the core is there: A collective endeavor where everyone benefits, with no profit motive. Open source is another great example of the same kind of approach, which is arguably what gave birth to the fediverse, or at least to Mastodon.
I really hope that once it becomes a familiar thing to people, they will see it as a natural way to organize for all their needs. I can't shake the vision of an entire economy run as cooperatives. How much better *everything* would be!
Steve E
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Aaron
in reply to Steve E • • •@steveediger I've been waiting to see other people make the connection.
Small monthly dues can guarantee availability, and people could individually sponsor those who can't pay, or vote to cover their dues collectively.
Aaron
in reply to Aaron • • •Steve E
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Aaron
in reply to Steve E • • •@steveediger Agreed! As @miriamrobern just pointed out on another subthread, right now each instance is essentially a benevolent dictatorship.
Should any one of these admins decide to stop being benevolent, or the members as a whole decide not to contribute financially, it will break down. It needs to be made official, as an actual cooperative.
Steve E
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Aaron
in reply to Steve E • • •Pusher Of Pixels (old account)
in reply to Aaron • • •the internet evolution has been a really interesting. We all were hooked by the dopamine peddler silos that like the frog, we didn't feel the water warming.
Federated is what the internet *is* at it's core.
To coopt a phrase "Nature is healing" as people are reawakened to the concept of federated. And if they need an example of how it works....it's just email for social media
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Aaron
in reply to Pusher Of Pixels (old account) • • •@pixelpusher220
That's funny! I just used the same analogy of frogs boiling. It's a very apt analogy for how everything works now. Some new startup is amazing...kind, caring, responsive, helpful...and everybody lines up for what they've created. And then the investors start pushing them to make a profit. The value the startup provided to consumers becomes nothing more than a lure, a way to extract money out of us by any means necessary, for strangers who care nothing about the people they are damaging. All that work to build something meaningful and valuable to society is eventually torn down and turned into a resource extraction machine.
Aaron
in reply to Aaron • • •@pixelpusher220
Monetization is just another word for predation, but one that's polite to the people doing it. Same goes for profit, interest, and rent. The predation needs to end. I'm fine with people making money by actually contributing to society, but nobody should be allowed to hold us down and milk us for all we're worth. And that's what basically every business does now.
📷
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in reply to 📷 • • •Miriam Robern
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Aaron
in reply to Miriam Robern • • •notsoloud
in reply to Aaron • • •@datacoop is a danish "co op cloud", mastodon included. They share their code, maybe you could ask about their experience?
data.coop/tjenester/
@miriamrobern
Tjenester
data.coopAaron reshared this.
Aaron
in reply to notsoloud • • •Steve E
in reply to Aaron • • •ChiCommons Consulting – We provide practical business and technology services to help you flourish
chicommons.comAaron reshared this.
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in reply to Steve E • • •Lu
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Aaron
Unknown parent • • •8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*]
in reply to Aaron • •The most important part about fediverse is that it's a decentralised network, not a distributed one, as it is often misrepresented. The base entity is an instance / community and, to have real influence on the instance's policies, people need to form a community and keep maintaining it.
In Artel's pipeline we have a Seedbed project, being a platform coop for incubation of small community instances.
Anyone interested in early onboarding, talk to me, please.
Symbolic representation:
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Aaron
in reply to 8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*] • • •@8petros This is great!
#cooperatives
#fediverse
#MastodonInstance
8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*]
in reply to Aaron • •No Mastodon, please. It is an epitome of "benevolent" autocracy.
Working hypotheses:
#Misskey or #Akkoma for microblogging.
#Friendica for mezoblogging
#Halcyon for multi-instance access online (mosaic identity)
#Husky for mobile app (ditto)
#Yunohost as a platform for communities going on their own.
Several "2nd level" services, to be discussed.
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8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*]
in reply to 8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*] • •Here is the presentation that started it all, over a year ago.
Fediverse2021PLGeneralPart1Eng.pdf
Fediverse2021PLGeneralPart2Eng.pdf
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Aaron
in reply to Aaron • • •@squish
@actuallyautistic
@neuro
#ActuallyAutistic
I heard that there was some trouble with the @neurodifferent.me server recently, due to a lot of strain & pressure falling on the admin and some technical issues as well. I have a lot of friends on this server, being #autistic myself. What do you folks think about forming a #cooperative and chipping in together to form a more stable arrangement that ensures both that the server is maintained and the admin isn't overloaded? I would love to see a more cohesive community form around this instance.
#ActuallyAutistic
#Neurodiversity
@8petros
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8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*]
in reply to Aaron • •Let's talk what synergy can we get here - @COMFY Tech Artel Poznań will be a good space to try it, I hope.
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Vincent
in reply to Aaron • • •@squish @actuallyautistic @neuro @8petros
Might be interesting, I'd be curious to follow and see how it works. I've been administrating my own instance with a couple of friends to see how things work. So far it is still a good solution for me, but I will be really glad to see that community form too. A lot of posts from neurodivergent.me are already reaching my feeds, so I can see plenty at the moment :)
Great idea, good luck!
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Aaron
in reply to Vincent • • •@vincent @squish @actuallyautistic @neuro @8petros I have an understanding of how organizations work, and how people are incentivized by different forms of organizational structures, but I am the worst person in the world to actually implement these things. I don't know law, finance, business, etc. Just incentive structures, which I learned through my machine learning background and interest in economics.
The point being, I know it's a good thing to do, but I lack the expertise on actually making a legally incorporated cooperative. Hoping others can pick up where my own skills end abruptly. I'll be along for the ride to learn, too, if possible.
Vincent
in reply to Aaron • • •@squish @actuallyautistic @neuro @8petros
Oh, yeah, hell no. Don't ask me to implement that either...
GTMLosAngeles
in reply to Aaron • • •Alessio
in reply to Aaron • • •Aaron
in reply to Alessio • • •Alessio
in reply to Aaron • • •Aaron
Unknown parent • • •8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*]
in reply to Aaron • •To whom it may interest: I have just started putting together a map of the #Artel #SeedBed concept. Very much work-in-progress, but you are welcome to look over my shoulder.
SeedBed.km
By the end of the week it will be published in the feed of @COMFY Tech Artel Poznań for public scrutiny. Meanwhile, feel free to drop me any remark you see fit.
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Aaron
in reply to 8Petros [$ rm -rv /capitalism/*] • • •si_irini
in reply to Aaron • • •A great movement....
I hope that...🙏
Karl R
in reply to Aaron • • •Yes, #Fediverse is different as it's a product of civil society rather than business interests. I doubt it's popularity will really move the needle any more then the widespread adoption of #FOSS has.
The basic structure of democratic states is partly #P2P (one person, one vote), but even that notion is now under threat by authoritarians. The phase change that needs to happen is a political and ethical one, but most people eschew thinking on this level.
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Unknown parent • • •federico
in reply to Aaron • • •Aaron
in reply to federico • • •Peters J Vecrumba
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Inaya Shujaat عنايه شجاعت 🇳🇿
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Aaron
in reply to Inaya Shujaat عنايه شجاعت 🇳🇿 • • •Inaya Shujaat عنايه شجاعت 🇳🇿
in reply to Aaron • • •I do the same. I’d also like to think that doing so has helped me to not only learn a lot about different communities, but to grow as an individual. Listening to their voices is key in developing true empathy, with understanding and genuine compassion.
I also use my own experiences to help me to understand the experiences of others, and why it’s so damn important to support and listen to them.
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in reply to Aaron • • •Aaron
in reply to 🍄🌈🎮💻🚲🥓🎃💀🏴🛻🇺🇸 • • •🍄🌈🎮💻🚲🥓🎃💀🏴🛻🇺🇸
in reply to Aaron • • •Aaron
in reply to 🍄🌈🎮💻🚲🥓🎃💀🏴🛻🇺🇸 • • •Aaron
Unknown parent • • •Aaron
Unknown parent • • •@another_katt @kralcttam I don't think it was better, honestly. There were other things that were very wrong with the world, that have gotten better, alongside the things that have gotten worse. For example, we have much better visibility into the harms and dangers our behaviors have on each other, thanks to social media, and this lets us be more supportive and kinder to each other. I don't think the #ActuallyAutistic community could have existed back then, much less have actively worked shoulder to shoulder alongside other marginalized groups to fight for human rights as we do now.
I have the same perspective as you on nostalgia, I think. We should strive for the best outcome going forward, because that's what we have (limited) control over. But the past should inform those efforts. History is the experience we learn from.
neverbeaten
in reply to Aaron • • •Snow Jo ❄️ 💫
in reply to Aaron • • •2¢
in reply to Aaron • • •Aaron
in reply to 2¢ • • •2¢
in reply to 2¢ • • •the evolution of network communication has brought us to a point where people are encouraged to happily surrender the control and autonomy of their spheres of communication. It can be frustrating to watch this submission.
Does not the evolving financial system present the same threat? Or are people also blind to that - perhaps even more so?
VulcanTourist [MOVED]
in reply to 2¢ • • •@Qbitzerre
The "network" doesn't cause this behavior, and it predates "The Network" by millennia. Humans have been "happily surrendering the control and autonomy of their spheres of communication" for thousands of years.
It's called groupthink, one of the nastiest symptoms of TRIBALISM. It's not new, and has nothing to do with the Internet. It has everything to do with tribalism. The Internet merely adds grease to the whole process by eradicating geography as a barrier.
2¢
in reply to VulcanTourist [MOVED] • • •@VulcanTourist it's the grease (accelerants) I refer to as a concern. And you are right, it is a timeless problem. Now, back to the discussion?
Are you suggesting that tools of control and oppression should be of no concern?
VulcanTourist [MOVED]
in reply to 2¢ • • •@Qbitzerre
It's every bit as much a tool of questioning, critique, revolt, and rebellion as it might be a tool of control and oppression. You mis-perceive who's losing that contest, I think. That network you fear is very likely aiding the progressive rejection of organized religion and mythology, and I can think of no better example of control and oppression than that.
The tool isn't causal. The cause is the hands that wield it. Vigilance is required, always and forever.
Aaron
Unknown parent • • •True, but I see it as a combination of that and systemic issues. Our laws and culture are set up specifically in support of the notion that the majority of economic activity is centered around profit. Anything else is treated like some kind of side show, a special exception for nonconformists. Imagine if the reverse were true, and cooperatives were the standard form for corporations. Better yet, what if there were no stock market at all, and to exit a startup meant converting it to a cooperative and selling it to the community stakeholders whose welfare is directly affected?
It's my hope that experiencing cooperative-style organizations first-hand, especially at the point of inception, will help people to see the value of this approach and start thinking of different ways to systemize our economic activity. We need to establish a new normal, because the current one is broken.
Shelley
in reply to Aaron • • •jeanoappleseed
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in reply to Aaron • • •Richard W. Woodley RNKD BLTS 🇨🇦🌹🚴♂️📷 🗺️
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